Tez araştırmalarımı yaparken, tez konum olan Latin Amerika bölgesini daha iyi anlamak ve onların Türkiye ile ilgili olan düşüncelerini merak ettiğim için bölgenin en büyük ülkelerinin Türkiye elçilikleri ile iletişime geçip bir röportaj ayarlamak istedim. Brezilya büyükelçisi sayın Ceglia ile bu fırsatı elde ettim. İlk başta yazılı olarak soruları iletmemi akabinde yüz yüze görüşmeye katılacağımı belirttiler. Sorularımı naçizane ilettim ama asıl fikrim tüm soruları detaylı olarak yüz yüze sormaktı. O sıralar başlayan Ukranya-Rusya savaşı münasebetiyle çok yoğun olduğu ve sürekli heyetlerin geldiği ve yüz yüze görüşmemizin ertelendiği belirtildi. En nihayetinde tezimde de işime yarayan ve alıntı yaptığım bu yazılı röportajı yapma fırsatı yakaldım. Aşağıda sayın Ceglia ile yapmış olduğum yazılı röportajı siz değerli okuyuculara sunuyorum.
“What do you think about the 2006 Latin America Action Plan by led the Turkish government? Is it a delayed decision? Was it useful in strengthening the ties between countries?
Regarding relations between Türkiye and Brazil, if we look at the evolution in this period, I believe that the results are very positive. In 2010, we celebrated the strategic partnership between the countries, which was an important step towards bilateral intensification. There were several high-level visits, which were suspended for a long period due to the pandemic and returned strongly in 2022. Minister Çavusoglu was in Brazil in April. Economic relations have also increased. In 2021, bilateral trade flow reached nearly US$ 5 billion, not to mention growing bilateral investments and tourist flows.
Why do you think most of the associations failed in the Latin America Region? For example, why weren’t they successful like the ones led by the European Union?
I do not agree with the premisses in your question. There are several associations of States in Latin America and, even though perhaps more could be achieved within their scopes, it would be a mistake to classify them as a failure. Mercosur, for instance, which is Brazil’s first stepping stone in terms of regional integration, has been an unquestionable success if compared to the reality before its inception. There is also a geographical misconception which complicates such a comparison. Whereas Western Europe is but a fraction of the territory of Brazil alone. Latin America, on the other hand, is a multicontinental region, encompassing three distinct areas: South, Central and North America. Tempting as it may be, using a common yardstick to measure “success” in these two very distinct realities is not a very productive endeavour.
Some articles state that there is not a suitable country to lead the associations in the region. Do you think Brazil can shoulder this leadership?
Brazil is a staunch believer in the basic principle of the “sovereign equality among Nations”. On the other hand, as I expand on further along, we are a Country of very expressive dimensions, which have to be taken into account. Within the framework of these two realities, Brazil is certainly capable and willing to take on a role in promoting common regional interests.
How do you evaluate the relationship between Türkiye and Brazil? What could we do to foster cooperation between the countries?
Relations between Brazil and Türkiye have evolved satisfactorily and can grow much more, because there is enormous potential. Much has already been done in terms of political approximation, intensification of economic relations, among other actions. I believe that we must continue along this path, seeking to expand mutual knowledge, exchange cultural aspects, remove trade barriers, in short, seek possible synergies between countries.
I believe that there is a lot of interest in both countries in increasing cooperation, including in areas that demand a lot of trust, such as the defence industry. In this regard, I would like to point out that, last March, the countries signed a cooperation agreement on the defence industry, which should support dialogue between companies in the segment.
Latin America region is an effective power but could this region be an independent center of power during the transition to a multi-polar world?
Again, answering for Brazil, we are talking about one of the biggest countries in the world in terms of territory, population and economy. Brazil is the 5th. country in the world in terms of territory, it has the sixth largest population (about 215 million inhabitants), is the largest economy in Latin America by far and one of the largest in the world, just to contextualize the country in terms of size. We have abundant resources, one of the countries with the highest agricultural productivity in the world and a strong and diversified industry, including in the defence sector. In political terms, Brazil plays relevant role in multilateral forums and is one of the countries with diplomatic presence in the world, factors that make Brazil a very relevant actor on the global stage.
Brazil is mostly famous for football and carnivals in Türkiye but it’s not very well-known and not easy to visit as well due to the long distance. Do you have any projects to help Turkish youth know the region better?
The distance between the countries cannot be seen as an obstacle to the growth of our bilateral relations, but rather an opportunity for the development of complementary capacities in each other regions. Our objective is to promote mutual knowledge between our peoples. We have a very active Trade Promotion Section at the Embassy to advance that goal on the business sector. We also seek, as I always say to businessmen, to work together with the Turkish government to remove any obstacles to their activities, in Brazil or here. Still in relation to the expansion of mutual knowledge between the countries, there is currently a coincidence of important commemorative dates for Brazil and Türkiye. In 2022, Brazil celebrates the bicentennial of its’ independence and, in 2023, Türkiye celebrates a century of the beginning of the Republic. For our part, we are planning a series of cultural activities not only in Ankara, but also in Istanbul, Izmir and other major cities, to mark this date and put Brazil in the spotlight for our Turkish friends. I also believe that high-level visits play a key role in this process and, therefore, I want to highlight the important the recent visit of Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu to Brazil, in April.
Academic relations are also weak between the countries. Do you any projects to improve the scholarship scheme for young people?
Of course, academic and cultural relations are to play a significant part of the bilateral relationship. For countries as important as Brazil and Türkiye which share a long dated peaceful relationship, the ties could be strengthened by getting each other better by increasing actions of like the translation to each other languages of books, the exhibition of movies, the exchange of academic works and professors, facilitating performances of artists and by the implementation of actions devoted to spread the knowledge of Portuguese and Turkish languages in both countries. It’s important to remember that Brazil has recently donated 115 books in Portuguese to the Presidential Library in Ankara. Academics from Brazil an Türkiye are working in a translation of a Brazilian History Book under de auspices of the University of Ankara. More actions like these should be implemented. Besides that, the establishment of Centers of Brazilian Studies in Turkish Universities and of Centers of Turkish Studies in Brazilian Universities would also strongly contribute to get both countries closer. Those actions would contemplate the mutual granting of scholarships.
What do you think about the neoliberal policies? Do you think it is a good choice for Brazil?
Beyond policy slogans, which can be deceiving and counterproductive, I believe the market is a very important instrument in determining costs and identifying the ideal allocation of resources. Brazil has been going through a period of pro-market economic reforms and fiscal consolidation in the past decades, which has created the foundations for the country's sustained economic growth. As a result, initial market forecasts for the growth of the Brazilian economy in 2022 are being revised upwards and the employment generation numbers are improving.
What is your advice for young people like me who are interested in the Latin America Region?
I am glad to hear you are interested in the region, in particular Brazil. I think that individual initiatives, like yours, have a lot to contribute to the improvement of mutual knowledge, as we mentioned above. I wish you much success in your academic endeavor and I hope you can visit Brazil soon! I'm sure you will be delighted!
Carlos Martins Ceglia
Ambassador of Brazil to Turkey